This discussion just proveshow much an international organ is needed. There is no real organ to pull the strings here. We need that. As time goes by, it becomes more and more apparent that this is a sport owned by companies that make and/or sell yoyos. That needs to stop. We need an organisation that is independant from stores and manufacturers that can run this thing.

The Czech Yoyo Association has hosted good events. On top of having Czech nationals, they have also done some work with the EYYM and the EYYC.

The way Worlds works now is just not optimal, and it is obvious that something needs to be done. I'm in huge favour of doing it now as opposed to "waiting and see".

Cool, I completely missed that.

As for my statement about the youTube video of Tyler's 2012 Worlds 5A, it is not there anymore. Either it has been removed or I was mistaken.

I am glad they are helping you with your shop. They help clubs here as well, but that does not mean they are going to sponsor a major event like Worlds in Prague. I am not a lawyer but I do have to wonder, wouldn't sponsoring an event such as that bring the same 5A patent scrutiny that they worry about here in the US? It is a US company and it is a US patent. A World YoYo contest is just that. Sure they sponsored EYYC, but they can argue that it was localized to a different audience so only the hardcore will follow it (like soccer here in the States). Worlds is the yoyo equivalent to the Olympics, everyone watches it.

YYF Europe is actually fairly independent. They have a common catalog of products for the most part, but I tend to believe that most of the business decisions are made locally.

Who is the parent company.

Samsung is in court right now with Apple over patent issues. Samsung US may be fairly independent, but it is Samsung that is on trial.

hope so a lot of OD fans will be there at Prague! Then we will meet

I have always wanted to visit Prague, it is just so full of history.

I've kept out of this in other places, but this seems to be headed in a somewhat levelheaded and logical direction, so I'll chime in here for now.. I'm trying to keep a level perspective here simply because I know/respect the people on both sides of this.

I know both sides of this pretty well, I've talked with both sides extensively.

First, let's get some names up as to who is behind the scenes here.

World YoYo Contest - Greg Cohen is the chairman and considers himself the "caretaker" of worlds.. there is a committee of people who help him plan the event. Nathan Chrissy, Bill DeBoisblanc (sorry Bill if I misspelled that), the list goes on.. people who specialize in judging, etc. all have a say in how things are set up. Ultimately the location and event setup are Greg, and he's the one dealing with the venue.

Prague Contest - Hironori Mii, Andre Bouley, Korda (I'm not sure on the spelling of his name, so forgive me.. he's the Czech guy behind EYYC) are the ones trying to organize this.

It should be noted that both Hiro and Andre have been a big part of the World YoYo Contest the past many years, but have decided they need to change what they are doing.

Why attempt to steal worlds? (yes, that is very much what is going on)

- This seems to come down to frustration mostly. They feel that Greg has been unreceptive to change in the last several years as things have started to grow worldwide. There is some feeling that the contest itself has been de-emphasized in favor of a more convention type atmostphere and that the contestants are not being respected.

The 'movement' issue is of course a big one as well. Having the World contest in the USA every year isn't truly fair to the rest of the world. Orlando is an expensive place to get to for many people, and it isn't cheap to stay in either. In an ideal world the contest would move each year worldwide.. they feel they can do a better job with it than Greg has done.

The other side (or at least my perspective) -

- There are some serious communication issues going on. Greg is not particularly great at communicating clearly all the time and this seems to have caused some problems over the years. He doesn't tend to be particularly transparent with his plans either, and gets a bit defensive at times. However, from every conversation I've had with him, he seems willing to adjust to what the community wants. The convention atmosphere is in many ways necessary, it is PART of the contest. If you just have competition, only a small selection of people will attend.. if you have a social gathering built around a competition, everybody wants to be there. It has to be MORE than JUST a contest. However, if the competitors are feeling disrespected in any way, that's a problem that needs to be addressed immediately.. without them the gathering holds no meaning.

- Moving worlds is a -VERY- complicated issue. The World YoYo Contest is its own entity.. it is a registered non-profit organization. It assumes the liabilities and costs of the event. Moving from one country to another presents a large list of problems that I wouldn't attempt to try say I understand completely (I don't think anybody knows it all), but here are a few..

1) Legal issues -Taxes, liability problems, insurance, etc.
2) Organizational - quite simply who is doing what. Organizing a large event is extremely time consuming and complicated.
3) Money - there are a TON of costs associated with this type of event, all has to be paid for and it can vary greatly from one country to another.
4) Judges - how do you keep a level judging system? for that matter has anybody actually agreed to any standard system? is this going to get changed every time somebody else puts the contest on in their country? Are the judges going to be the same or of equal caliber?

All that said, the plan for the World YoYo Contest has -always- been to have it move around the world, it just takes a long time for that to become feasible while still maintaining a very stable contest that will go on for the next 50 or 100 years. It took up until the last few years for the contest to just not lose money.. now it is building.

People seem to forget that without Worlds being there, all these National Contests that are going on worldwide wouldn't exist.. the growing communities that we have now wouldn't necessarily exist either. It has been the beacon that gives people something to aim for.. now it seems that some people have built on that success and feel that 'oh, well we did it quick, why can't they?'.. without that groundwork their success may not have been so easy.

I will say that Greg DOES have a plan for moving the contest, for bringing in larger non-yoyo sponsors, for growing the event. I'm not sure to what level he wants me to discuss it, but I'll certainly ask him about sharing.

The Date -

- Holding the 'competing' contest on the same day is, well, stupid. It doesn't help either contest, it forces people to choose, it irritates a lot of sponsors.. there is no upside. Shift it 30 days one way or another and it becomes a great event that ADDS to the world yoyo community instead of trying to break it. I don't think anybody (Greg included) wants them to fail at creating a successful contest, it's just that doing it this way is harmful to everybody.

An important question... Why does this Prague contest 'have' to be an attempt at becoming the World Title?

- The best I can understand, it seems it is a promotional issue in other countries. I would prefer they call it the International Championship, Galactic, Universal, the Eff Greg awards, whatever.. anything but Worlds. However, the Prague group sees it as a 'lesser' event if it is anything but a world title, and they seem to have issues promoting in various countries to the media without that association.

So basically, I get 'why' they are frustrated and why they feel they need to take this approach, but I certainly do not agree with how they are doing it or handling it.

That's all for now, hope it makes some sense and sheds some light on the situation.

Kyle

Great post Kyle and thank you for sharing it. I ran sound, lights, and video for Worlds this year and will be doing it again next year in Orlando. It is unfortunate but it looks like whoever wins either contest will have an * next to it. Which doesn't help the YoYo World. It is also going to split the community in half which I'm very against especially at how small we are and how fast we are growing as an industry.

I sat down with Greg for about a 2 hour meeting at Worlds which I am not at liberty to discuss but I will say one of the things none of us could figure out is why the same date. If they changed the date there is at least 150 people, including YoYo Community that would go to both of them and sponsor both of them. The only thing that I can think of is that it is "Personal." Which is sad too as I think that we all need to work together not divide the YoYo world.

One thing as far as running a better contest that I'm not sure I agree with is that EYYC12 in Prague, if you remember correctly, didn't pay any of the winners anything. A reason was later given that it was too expensive to run the contest that they didn't have enough money left over to pay the players. I know that worlds paid out over $6000.00 if you include AP and the medals that are given out cost about $40.00 a piece and are solid metal (Perhaps bronze but I don't know for sure) That was one of Greg's big things is that he wants the awards to be something that people hold on to for life. And as of today, a medal or award has never been sold or given away. Unlike the Triple Crown YoYo Trophy that I already saw one up on Ebay. I thought the World YoYo Contest this year went very very well. I thought it looked good, sounded good, ran pretty much on time for an event that had over to 300 contestants. (I was at the sound booth for 9 hours straight on Thursday with nothing more than a run to the bathroom, and yes I had to run) haha.

As far as everyone working together and having a committee and group, Greg did tell me that is a big goal of his. But in order to do it properly, needs money. This isn't just a group of guys sitting around a table it is an official legally binding group. I'll let Greg get into more of that if he wishes too as it is not my place.

In the end, there is a huge need. When you have Worlds in August........(Which I think is when it needs to be to work with schools and travel and so forth) then you have Nationals 2 months later in October? Then South East Regionals in November? Then Florida States in Feb? That is as completely backwards as it can get. It should be Worlds in August......State Contests in the fall until December 31st, Regionals through the spring, and then Nationals in May or June leading up to Worlds. However all of the contests are run by volunteers. Which is why everything is completely backwards and disorganized.

While I believe that changes are needed. I believe that there needs to be a group that is respected by the industry or say a representative from each company/store/manufacturer, that will come in and work together to make something amazing. Greg, while people can say what they want, took over Worlds in the late 90's when it was dying out and has made it into something great. Can it be taken even further? Yes, yes it can. I for one am working very hard from a production side of things to do just that for 2013. However, does it need a hostile take over? No, no it does not. Only time will tell what will become of this. I just hope it doesn't do more damage than good.

For those who don't know, I should probably clarify my relationship to this stuff, simply for the sake of being open about where my views may be influenced.

I have been attending worlds since 2000 when Greg took over (consecutively since 04). I have worked the event in many ways and have helped run the modding workshops since 05 when they began.. I even provide a huge number of tools that I now drive out from Houston. (it was much easier when I lived 4 hours away in Tallahassee).

I worked for Greg for about 3 years, and we've remained friends.. he's even coming to my wedding next month.

I've known Hiro and Andre for many years as well, though I couldn't tell you exactly when I met either.. it has been quite a while. I do not know Korda (again, somebody correct me if I'm not spelling that right).

A good bit of all this -is- personal.. it's one person or another feeling slighted for something or feeling as if they've been ignored or overlooked. In fact, from the discussions I've had it seems that's a large part of it.. which is unfortunate.

I will say that not even all of the people behind the Prague contest agree with the date.

Prize money is something that comes with sponsorship over time.. though I can say that from what I can gather from my talks at worlds, it isn't something particularly high on the Prague group's list of requirements for a contest.. they seem very intently focused on the title.

Kyle

There is one MAJOR problem with moving the event somewhere else... one of the traditions of Worlds is a visit to Lucky's house for the BBQ. I know it is not an essential but it is one of the reasons why I have always wanted to attend Worlds.

that can be changed with a visit to The Pub in Prague, no worries

By the way, I'm also on the same boat with the name. They can call it World Yoyo Cup, International Yoyo Masters, Associations World Contest... any name that sounds good. I dont know the internal problem with the dates, but for me it is a way to put pressure somehow, but I wont say anything about that without having more info. Anyway you should consider that making it in summer holidays is the best for everyone.

But I don't drink.

Also The Pub in Prague is missing:

The cool house

The lake

The yo-yo collection

The one and only Lucky

On a serious note, I agree with you, David and the others. Call it something else, add to the competitions do not try to supplant an already established competition with the unknown. I said it above, make it the International YoYo Contest and have it change venue every couple of years, similar to how the World Cup works.

As for the dates, it does feel like it is a power play like squeeze to force Greg's hand. This could end up biting everyone in the butt forcing people to choose could ultimately make them choose choice C: Non of the above. It could also splinter the groups and end up being a second European contest over there and a second National contest over here.

On a final note. Summer holiday dates are great for us in the Northern Hemisphere, but what about our South American, Australian, and African friends?

The problem with the same date is it hinders the attendence at both contests. David is right, how is making people choose a contest accomplishing anything? Contests are for the people and the community. If they simply put the contests 2 weeks apart or a month apart both would receive better attendance and its one more contests for people to attend as opposed to making people choose one or the other based on whatever reason they might pick one over the other (sponsors, location, etc.) Also the same name? call it the International yoyo championships? I think its very immature to call it the same name thats how you know they're just making this more of a situation of picking a comp instead of just providing more comps for everyone

Mmmm, didnt hear about many african players Maybe brazilians are affected. I understand all the points, but being realistic: do you think two world contests with 2 weeks difference can work? Most of the players will have to choose one to attend, only a small percentage will have the money to attend both.

I feel there will be a huge amount of people changing to the prague event: flights for non north american will cost about the same but they can cover accomodation, food and party for about 1/4 the cost. Also the contest will be more international, with loads of russian, polish, czech, french, italian, german, turkish, slovakian, hungarian, british and spanish players.

Agree with you that probably it is not fair for Greg, that some other things can be done, different decisions can be taken, etc. but when the announcement is already done it is because the dialogue is broken, and I suspect the guys behind the prague contest have tried hard to make it different.

I created a comitee to talk about it, including all presidents and contest organizators around the world and it seems most of them will "vote" for Prague...

I was including all Southern Hemisphere continents... I am sure there is a player or two from Africa.

I do not think two HUGE contests will work two weeks apart, If they must persist then it should be done several months apart. For some players it will take nearly six months to recoup the money from one contest just so they can spend it again on the next. Not to mention it will anger the sponsors with teams. Imagine a company, like One Drop, having to send their team to both Worlds Orlando and Worlds Prague. Doing that over the course of two weeks is not economically feasible to any yo-yo company. Then there is the simple matter of time. Do the players have the time to take off work, practice, and create a performance. You will end up seeing quite a bit of repetition in competition freestyles for the players that can attend both events instead of giving them time to perfect a unique freestyle for each contest.

From what?

Not to complicate things further but it's time to come clean. We've been talking to, and planning with, some very influential people in Japan and we've decided to hold a World YoYo Contest in Tokyo next year, over the August 8-10 weekend. Expect free ice cream, a $10,000 first prize, unicorn rides, and free lodging. We thank you in advance for all of your support for the new World YoYo Contest. Please know that we have nothing to do with planning, sponsoring, or promoting this contest because of complicated legal issues that we've been told not to talk about(other than in vague terms). We are also in the dark about many of the details. Like you we are excitedly awaiting further information...

I'd like to see the Unicorns' pedigrees, please!

db

Bugger off DB, this is Shawn. He has no reason to lie to us.

Shawn, you can keep the $10,000 grand prize. You had me at Unicorns. Now are these African or European Unicorns? Remember, you have to know these things if you want to run a contest.

...and do the Unicorns come with coconuts?

db