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TCK
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:20 pm Posts: 1327 Location: Cloverdale, California
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 Re: White M1
Tristan Phone wrote: If there are 11 colors that the M1 can be purchased in, what is the difference between those colors and white? What makes white so special? Ummm- you don't have one 
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| Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:26 pm |
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Vendetta
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:22 pm Posts: 2478 Location: California
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 Re: White M1
Just gonna say, it won't be easy. Laser etching an entire yoyo is going to be very difficult, which in most cases = very expensive. Unfortunately, the laser cares how far it is from the surface to be etched. Because this varies widely on a yoyo, time must be taken to set this up well. Best of luck with this though, just seems like it will be more work than it is worth (literally). P.S. - Sorry for being negative nancy. 
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| Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:15 am |
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TCK
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:20 pm Posts: 1327 Location: Cloverdale, California
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 Re: White M1
Probably right- cost inhibitive at the very best... Probably cheaper to rock the "snap and spray" 
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| Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:33 am |
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cowmamba
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:05 am Posts: 1985 Location: Indiana
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 Re: White M1
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| Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:44 pm |
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Tristan Phone
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:27 pm Posts: 31
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 Re: White M1
Seriously though. Why is white such a problem, when everything else isn't? Or have I just not understood someone's answer?
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| Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:22 pm |
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TCK
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:20 pm Posts: 1327 Location: Cloverdale, California
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 Re: White M1
They certainly did it without a laser didn't they? Cool paper, This myth is busted I think.
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 http://dlaurice.podomatic.com/ http://djgreedyg.proboards77.com/Chatty Mouth: Reggae, Rants and Reasoning
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:42 am |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
Thanks!!!!! :^) I am reading up on this new technology as we speak. The other aspect of it that you have to bear in mind is the company. IF, and I don't mean to start rumors, we are going to produce a white yoyo finish THEN we are going to need a qualified vendor to do the work for us. Remember, if we ship out 100 yoyos to be anodized we want to be fairly certain that the company we are dealing with will not ruin $10,000 worth of in-process yoyos. None the less, this is exciting news. And I can assure you that ODD will be looking into it. Our customers have spoken loud and clear on this issue, the market clearly wants a white anodizing option. Not just for yoyos but for so many other things as well.
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:29 pm |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
Tristan, Do you want the long or the short answer? 
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:31 pm |
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The Machinist
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:43 pm Posts: 1599 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Re: White M1
I vote long answer.
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:33 pm |
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dirty birdy
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:00 am Posts: 2695 Location: Area 51
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 Re: White M1
Two votes for the long answer...Go to it, Jay!
db
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:36 pm |
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Vendetta
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:22 pm Posts: 2478 Location: California
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 Re: White M1
TCK wrote: Cool paper, This myth is busted I think. I think I'll call it busted when I see it done consistently. 
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:00 pm |
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The Machinist
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:43 pm Posts: 1599 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Re: White M1
and affordably.
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:39 pm |
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Tristan Phone
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:27 pm Posts: 31
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 Re: White M1
Jay wrote: Tristan, Do you want the long or the short answer?  I have no preference. I really just want to know.
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:57 pm |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
You asked for it!
Well, here's the thing. Anodizing uses dye to make colors. So there is no white dye! But that is just the beginning. As you may well know, white light is made up of a full spectrum of colors. White light is what you get when you combine redbluegreenyellopurpllebrouwn, you get the picture.! Anyhow, our perception of color is based on physics. Anodized parts use dye to absorb certain wavelengths of light leaving only the (say) red light to reflect off the object.
The colors of anodizing are "additive" colors. Real light is "subtractive" I don't know all the proper graphic arts terminology. Basically there is RGB and CMYK, reads as Red Blue Green, Cyan Magenta Yellow K???. Then there is reflective light, and imissive light.
Obviously we are dealing with reflective light. Unless your yoyo is glowing :^) We can't use additive dyes, because dye is not light. So just adding all the dye colors together will not get you white, it will get you what you would expect, black.
Now there are some other forms of coatings that are much thinner than anodizing, these are called oxide coatings. Aluminum Oxide is White! But what you are getting is essentially a rusted yoyo. The light penetrates through the oxide layers and reflects back based on the thickness of the oxide coating. One atom thick = green, two atoms thick = red (I'm making this stuff up you have to get a physics textbook to get all the thicknesses and colors right;^)
At some thickness you get all the colors reflecting off your surface, this shows up as white.
Confuzed?!? So are we :^)
Bottom line, the anodizing of white aluminum oxide should be possible. Now we just need to find a vendor!
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:10 pm |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
Apologies to you folks who caught my mistake. It is better to be approximately correct than exactly wrong.
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:11 pm |
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Tristan Phone
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:27 pm Posts: 31
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 Re: White M1
Thank you Jay.
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:08 am |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
Vendetta wrote: TCK wrote: Cool paper, This myth is busted I think. I think I'll call it busted when I see it done consistently.  Read the paper and did some follow up research on vendors. Still can't find anyone who is actually doing this commercially. I think what we have here is a very neat science project, not ready for prime time. This technology will probably become available in the next few years as existing anodizers buy patent rights and equipment for this new technology. I'm still not seeing a consistent (in business), cost effective (won't break the bank), quality (surface thickness is consistent), product that we can buy and bring to market. Our Best bet is to make a white "denim" yoyo. That would be a blue anodized base coat with a laser engraved closely packed grid artwork, that would simulate a complete laser whitewash. The effect would be to make a blue/white yoyo that would probably look white when spinning. We would have to experiment with that however to see if it is feasible.
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:11 am |
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Jay
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 am Posts: 376 Location: Eugene Oregon
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 Re: White M1
Tristan Phone wrote: Thank you Jay. You are most welcome! We are all here to serve the customer :^)
_________________ Best Regards, Jay One Drop Creative Team
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:16 am |
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TCK
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:20 pm Posts: 1327 Location: Cloverdale, California
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 Re: White M1
Uh oh... and DELIVERED. this thing looks like it is from outer space, but it is white aluminum. And affordable (considering the full ceramic bearing), and I know they did it at least 30 times... Now we have to go to Japan and watch how huh?  Here's the page http://www.yoyonation.com/product.php?productid=16817&cat=251&page=1
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 http://dlaurice.podomatic.com/ http://djgreedyg.proboards77.com/Chatty Mouth: Reggae, Rants and Reasoning
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Vendetta
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:22 pm Posts: 2478 Location: California
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 Re: White M1
TCK wrote: Uh oh... and DELIVERED. this thing looks like it is from outer space, but it is white aluminum. And affordable (considering the full ceramic bearing), and I know they did it at least 30 times... Now we have to go to Japan and watch how huh?
Unfortunately, that finish isn't really white (more grayish), and it's not anodization either. Maybe I am being picky, but if it is just a white yoyo you are looking for, I own one. It is painted. You could also powdercoat it, or airbrush it. The idea, though, is that we are looking for a white anodization, which still has yet to be produced in large quantities, and at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, if it could be done, it would have by now. There is plenty demand for it. This won't happen until a new technology is achieved. Even then, it will take time before we see it en masse. However, if you want to learn more about the Shield in the process, check here: http://www.yoyonation.com/talk/index.ph ... 824.0.html
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| Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:36 pm |
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