Fixed.


Keep in mind that smaller gyroscopes lack the power of larger ones and when they're connected they act as one gyroscope. Putting the weight in that inner ring instead of far out on the rims actually sacrifices some stability. If it's done right, and only in the right context, the return is a more balanced throw.

"Steal" was a poor word choice on my part; "inspire" or "influence" would have been far better.

YYR's V-shaped designs essentially changed the game as far as competition yoyos are concerned. When Clint wanted a pure performance tournament yoyo, the Burnside is what you arrived at. It's by no means a plagiarism of YYR, but neither did you stick your head in the sand and ignore the strides they (and others) made down that particular design path.

When your fans and team members demand pure performance, it would be foolhardy not to acknowledge the progress made by others. No matter what you come up with, it will have it's own One Drop flavor, because how could it not?

As has been noted, influence is one thing but in this case it's a signature feature that Chris came up with. If you want that performance benefit, get a CLYW. It's not illegal to take it, but each company must make it's own decision regarding how they treat other companies. We choose to have great working relationships with almost every single yoyo company out there. Traditional business would call them our competitors but we prefer to see them as allies. YYF has a different approach.

Fair enough. I can't pretend to have some deep understanding of the physics involved. All I know is that there's something there; an idea that works well and can (and inevitably will) be explored and expanded upon. One more tool in the toolbox of design, to be used or misused in a thousand different ways.



I realize this, and part of why I'm a fan is that I appreciate your attitudes and business practices. I'm not trying to be all "you WILL do this thing you find morally repugnant, because the relentless drumbeat of progress will force you to compromise your values." I know that's not how you guys roll.

In before the lock!

The YYF = Mega Corporation opinion kills me every time. It's their made up image. In reality, they're probably not much bigger than One Drop. I don't think anybody is going to prefer this new thing to the Chief. I made a post on TheYo forever ago talking about this. Maybe I'll repost it here. To put it very briefly, how often do YYFs sell out in under five minutes? Never. How often do yoyos from the "little guys" (One Drop, General Yo, CLYW, for example) sell out in under five minutes? Routinely.

As for calling companies, even companies you love, to the mat, well... Let's test that.

Let's talk about the Burnside. If you took a raw Burnside and threw in K Pads, people would think it was a YYF, no question. It's very, very similar to the Protostar/Rockstar. To me, it even plays similarly to a first gen Rockstar. I know it was a signature for Clint, who obviously has a thing for YYF. But, One Drop is still responsible for it.

If you claim to hold every company to the same scrutinizing standards that you hold YYF to, why has this never been mentioned on this forum before?

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Please forgive me if the inconsistencies in your opinions don't quite jive with me.

To be clear, as I've said, it doesn't matter to me. Of course, I prefer One Drop to YYF, so a yoyo of this style made by One Drop is gravy to me.

It's one thing to take issue with YYF's business philosophy, but another to call them out for doing the same thing that every other yoyo company is doing: borrowing yoyo design ideas from each other. After all, one of the most beloved yoyos of all time, the Peak, was partly designed after a Yoyofactory product.

...and this is even coming from someone who was very disappointed with how YYF handled the whole L4/Avant Garde thing. Just sayin... they've messed up here and there but overall is YYF taking away or adding to the yoyo "community", etc.? As far as great plastics and flying players to contests, in my opinion they've done good to promote yoyoing to a wider audience. I am especially happy that they post tons of contest video even if a particular player is not on their team. If only the world were so simple as good guy/bad guy...

It's pretty simple, actually. One Drop gives their players what they want. Unlike some companies, they give their players all the input they desire, and then they produce said yoyo. They don't design a yoyo, and then tell a player "hey, here's your sig yoyo, enjoy it." In the case of the Burnside, they allowed Clint to have what he wanted. He sat (stood is probably more accurate) with Shawn and decided what the Burnside should be.

Is there a unique feature of the Burnside that was copied from another yoyo that I'm unfamiliar with? Concave catch zone, angle rims, and a tapped axle system aren't unique, so I'm not sure I understand the comparison.

YYF started on a multi-million dollar deal with Hasbro. They dwarf us The made up image is the opposite that they are two guys in a garage.

It's not about how fast something sells. It's about ethics. Like I said before there is a difference between influence (keeping up with the times) and just outright stealing a signature feature that only one other company is doing. A lot of this is a judgement call and it's fine if we disagree about those judgments That is what I like about our forum - that we can have disagreements and have it not turn personal.

I think that YYF is the topic of this discussion and not some other brand because other brands don't steal as blatantly and then claim to be the innovator. They clearly have a history of this. I think everyone is held to the same standards (actually I think YYF often gets a pass - your defense of this action for example) but most other companies act respectfully and so there is nothing to call them out on.

Also, this isn't about One Drop so I'm not sure why that keeps coming up. The discussion is about YYF taking a CLYW feature. We aren't involved.

Is the Chief-style double rim a performance feature or just about the look of it, antler cutaway? I mean, it looks cool and all but how does it play? CLYW is such a hyped company that most discussion about them is gushing praise and as a result it's hard to get the straight dope on their yoyos.

I guess that explains Shawnessy, then, huh? It must be their fault!


db

So, if a company releases a yoyo as a signature model, anything goes?

There is nothing exclusive about those features. When you put it that way, every yoyo is 100% original. All one has to do is hold up a Rockstar, Protostar or even a Genesis to a Burnside to see the resemblance. If you choose not to see it, we're looking at different yoyos.

Not necessarily, there are a few exceptions. It needs to be possible/feasible within the confines of what they have the ability to produce. Also, there may be a few things that aren't okay, such as copying signature features from another company, such as the inner ring of the Chief, or the undercut like the muffin top. They do this out of respect for the original creators, when something is obviously their creation. Anyone every wondered why splash wasn't done for so long?

You're arguing a moot point Aaron. This isn't about resemblance of one entire yoyo to the next, it's about the flagrant kravitz of a design element unique to the one company that came up with it, and the attitude and approach taken in doing so. It's about a lack of respect and total disregard. It's a different way of doing business, and I choose not to endorse it.

If you choose not to see that, then we have differing opinions.

I imagine splash wasn't done for so long because the splash patterns on the SB2s didn't really look that great. And because most companies were still only producing plastic and wooden yoyos at the time.

Actually there were plenty of metal yoyos at the time, specifically from companies like Custom. But, that's beside the point. My comment was about why OneDrop hadn't done splash for so long, not yoyo companies in general.

I said most, not all.

Perhaps we could discuss where the factory makes most of its stuff and why.
That is the primary reason why I do not own anything made by the factory, the fact that one of the principles of the factory is a complete douche is totally besides the point.
Also I owned a slew of SB's and I for one LOVED the splash ano, I wish I still had one.

From a customer standpoint, it seems like YYF is doing us a solid by behaving more like big business fatcats rather than cooperative members of a creative community. By stomping on other companies' turf, they effectively open the doors for others to do the same, who take the attitude of "we'll if those assholes are doing it!" Before long, it's literally an Everybody's Doing It situation, and even such principled companies as OD can explore those fertile prairies without stepping on toes.

Would CLYW still be the only company offering splash-anno'd yoyos if YYF hadn't started doing it? Would small, well-respected companies like Xcube and Chico have risked their good reputations by releasing muffintop-inspired throws if YYF hadn't first? And would it honestly be preferable if the Avant/Zeus/Recurve simply didn't exist, to preserve the purity of one man's unique (as in, only one exists) creation?

After all, it's hard to move a story forward without a good villain.

I do realize there's a flip side to that coin. For one thing, this sort of behavior has a homogenizing effect. Rather than having a bunch of companies that all have their own distinct quirks and unique visual signifiers, designs tend to bleed together and the yoyo world becomes samey as a result. It's like a strange alternate reality where Walmart can't quite crush mom-n-pop stores, but rather the mom-n-pops adapt by becoming miniature clones of Walmart.

I dunno, just some food for thought. Specifically, garlic fries.

You mean a collaboration like a Nickel Chief with side effects that is released right before my birthday?

Haha Something like that.